Private matches

[tofu]

It seems like you all are not listening to me. I said from the very beginning that I only enjoy watching bouts between well trained fighters. Do I know the difference? Yes, I'd like to think I do. Look, I don't like being stereotyped any more than you do. That's basically why I'm writing on this post I guess.

[KnockOut2]

I read, and understood, what you wrote. I feel I understand your perspective on the matter. I understand not wanting to be stereotyped. I constantly fight against stereotypes by which people want to encompass me, due to my gender.

We all have something in common, it seems. You, me, Tara...just different perspectives on the same core problem. Misconception.

My point was to be aware of the detriment of relating female fighting with smile. Something that seems so innocent and appreciative can cause great grief for true fighters, like Tara, who wish to separate themselves from the fetish interests in female fighting.

I would like to know something, Erik. I understand that you appreciate female fighting for two reasons. One is your appreciation for the fighter's technique and accomplishments. The other is your sexual arousal by watching that interaction between two female fighters. My question is, do you classify the second interest as a "fetish"? I'm curious how you consider that interest.

Again, no ill-feelings. I appreciate your openness, thus far. I want to understand something which I do not.

Ko2

[tofu]

Glad you appreciate the honesty. I always try to be honest if nothing else. I must admit I didn't really know exactly what the word fetish meant so I looked it up.

Fetish
1. An object that is believed to have magical or spiritual powers, especially such an object associated with animistic or shamanistic religious practices.
2. An object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence: made a fetish of punctuality.
3. Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.
4. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation.

Yes, I suppose that fits. Definatly the "abnormally obsessive preoccupation" and "unreasonably excessive attention" part. I don't really have any friends that share this fetish (there I used the word in a sentence) and life would probably be easier without it. This is why I question your assertion that it is learned from society.

I don't know if this sheds any more light on your trying to understand. I have my own things that I'll never understand (aka cigarrette smoking)and I know it's frusterating to not get an answer. Ponder this: Why do we like watching and participating in fighting to begin with? Isn't it mostly counterproductive, beating each other up? There is the cathartic release of anger and the qualities of courage and determination, but these can be found other places too.

The best I can do is to say that this sport encompasses all of these qualities in a way that is somehow greatly appealing. For me, adding another appealing aspect, women, takes it to another level.

[Joshi_Fan_sjt]

Hi everyone! I've read alot of the comments made to this thread and I personally don't feel that the word fetish really applies to fighting, unless it involves catfighting or similar forms of it...I don't know too much about what Apartment wrestling is, but it doesn't really sound all that different from backyard wrestling which to me brings to mind ECW (Hardcore) and garbage style wrestling involving weapons, etc.

I like Tara, she is someone that has strong opinions & views of MMA and womens involved with it and I respect that alot...I agree that women being involved in fighting or wrestling is more appealing to me than a couple of guys grunting & sweating...While I don't necessarily get turned on by two women fighting or wrestling I do get into the match more...I guess this comes from years of having to watch WWE womens wrestling...I eventually lost interest in WWE and wanted more than just simple T&A...I stopped watching WWE shortly after watching a PPV that was put out by WOW Women of Wrestling and in my quest to find an alternative to WWE womens wrestling I discovered Joshi... I started out by watching Arsion and have to say after watching a few Joshi matches, I was literally blown away by it as well as to just how much it was on a completely different level from anything here in the states...Mariko Yoshida & Ayako Hamada quickly became my favorites...I have been a fan of Joshi Puroresu/japanese womens wrestling for awhile and just started getting into MMA...I discovered this site for Debi Purcell and after watching her video clips, I have to say that I am truly impressed with the way Debi handles herself in the ring as well as training...I haven't really had the opportunity to check out any MMA videos/DVDs at this point...I'm seriously considering checking into videos/DVDs with Tara as well, based on her attitude and her comments here on MMA...I have a feeling that Tara will definitely become one of my favorites even though I haven't seen her fight yet...Before I take off, I just wanted to let everyone know about a group that I started for MMA Fighters & Fans...I had planned on doing one for MMA for quite awhile...I would like to extend an invitation to anyone that is interested to come check it out...

Thanks, Joshi_Fan_sjt
_________________
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MixedMartialArtsWorld-FightingWomen/

[blackbelt76]

There seems to be a ton of anger emanating from Jerzey!
I truly can not see from whence it hails, unless it stems from the fact that women's combat martial arts was rarely accepted in the past and even now meets many obstacles. I was raised and taught in the Dojo, the dojang; that when we enter the doors, we are not male nor female, we are competitors..and when we fight, I do not see a male or female..nor do I see the crowd....I see an obstacle..an opponent!
There are many reason WHY people enjoy physical one on one combat.
Some only seek mild matches, while others seek all out war..i.e UFC; most of us fall somewhere in the middle.
To tell someone their choice of venue is "fetish" in nature; is presumptuous at best!

I have fought in many tournaments over the past 17 yrs or so..(trained in classical Karate, TKD and attend every Gracie seminar when close enough) full contact, point sparring, freestyle with striking and ground work..I have also fought once or twice in private type matches..NOT because it is a fetish; but rather we did NOT want the predictable rules, regulations and control..Is this advisable? Not to most! When I did these private one on one matches, the only control was two other people in the room. It was also easy to screen REAL people with real desire to fight w/o a crowd. We don't meet in some dark alley either! To some there is the added thrill of doing this before your significant other..as I did...you are not out to win some trophy or play to the crowd..or even be driven on by the crowd..It is YOU and no one else..no other motivation besides knowing your significant other enjoys it as well. Why is that a fetish!???
Most people walk the middle of the road..I find it quite crowded at times, so every so often I walk along the edge..why? ..Because it is a thrill and let's us know we are still alive!..besides; my balance is fine thankyou.

Please; don't asume or pretend you know someone's motivation for doing anything..In Bethmarie's case; you are sadly mistaken in assuming she seeks some fetish thing and wants to roll with the playmate of the year.
She does not! She seeks a REAL match with a real female with the same desire. As far as tourney's? She will no doubt do some tourneys..so what is wrong with doing a private match?
While Bethmarie may not have vast knowledge in fighting (though she will)..she has the heart of a lion, courage few will ever realize..and the guts to come on this board, and make a sincere request....and then to be met with insult? Jerzey; you may be a pro in your sport and most likely quite accomplished, but how many do you think want to attain that level? How many actually do? I do not understand your throttling of people who do not measure up to your standards. Live and let live.
I speak as a 40 something male who no longer can do a 720 reverse spin kick..I could when I was 28 yrs old. I still compete, I teach..and most recently passed the torch to the next generation of Martial Artist's by breaking my Bo in ceremony..That did NOT signify my leaving the martial arts.. Far from it! It signified I would probably NOT be doing another National level tourney. I see ALL levels of martial artists. I NEVER put any art form down. To quote the man who taught me well; "There are no superior styles; only superior stylists!"

[Dlirag]

[KnockOut2]

blackbelt76...your post asks for understanding from Tara (Jersey). Rather than lecture her, I think that you should also practice some understanding of her perspective. Her posts are often harsh...but honest. Do you know what prompts her to post those types of responses to bethmarie?

Keep in mind, I think that Bethmarie's point in her post was for legitmate sport competition. But I also understand Tara's point of view. As I told Tara in chat, I would probably be irrate also if I was a female fighter.

Understanding is cool. I wish more people would aim for that.

Ciao

Ko2