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Lil Katai
Pro Fighter
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 426
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Jerzey
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 60
Location: Yakima, Wa
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KnockOut2
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Louisville, KY
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 Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Joe San?
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Jerzey
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 60
Location: Yakima, Wa
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tofu
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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In response to Knock Out 2's question and Tara's assertion that half the guys here are "fetish" people:
What constitutes a legit interest in the sport. I'll admit I find female fighting to be a turn on. But I don't think this undermines my respect for it as a sport. I dig mixed martial arts, but I must say I have special interest in the women's side. If this makes me a fetishisht or unwelcome to the forum, sorry, but like you said, it's Debi's choice to make.
Peace out,
Erik   |
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KnockOut2
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Well...
there is the comparison of women who watch men in MMA fighting and get turned on by it...or atleast I've seen women who watch it because "The fighters are hot!", according to them.
I remember once watching an older UFC event. My friend brought his girlfriend over. She wasn't really into the event until Jerry Bohlander started fighting and then she started getting into it because she said he had a "nice ass". Go figure...
Anyway...
I want to say that I think Female fighters, to me, are often very attractive! I mean, I find those qualities in a woman attractive. I think it is attractive for a woman to push herself mentally and physically.
However, I don't relate to Erik, because I do not get turned on by watching two women fight. When I'm watching two women fight, I'm not thinking about smile at all. I just think it's f%cking cool/inspirational/motivational to see women compete in a such an aggressive event....since society mostly teaches women not to get involved with sports or athletic things.
I am not into playboy bunnies...wafer thin models. But female fighters? hell yeah! However, that is not why I am here. This isn't a pickup bar. I am here to give female fighters support because I respect them. They need all the help they can get. I also want society to change.
Moreover...I think most guys will probably relate to female figting in a "sexy" way because that is how society teaches men to relate to women. I personally do not want to support this mentality. It does not help women to gain the respect they deserve for being serious competitors. They train their asses off and they get appreciated only for how they look in their grappling shorts? Lame.
I think it is safe to say that this site is NOT here for THAT interest in female fighting. This site is here for the appreciation of their skills and accomplishments. They need more of that type of appreciation, and less of the "smile" appreciation. All women get that anyway. I'm sure it gets old, not to mention, it distracts from their real accomplishments.
peasowt |
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KnockOut2
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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It was very frustrating being in the crowd at the all-female Hook nShoot event 2 years ago....there are a lot of dumb rednecks in Evansville. I heard all kinds of comments. Most of the crowd was respectful, but I occassionally heard comments like "I thought this was supposed to be oil wrestling"
...of course they would say it in a drunk-redneck accent... "Ah thouwt this'poose ta bey orl wrasslin"...as he spills his beer.
During the fight between Judy Neff and Shelby Walker....Neff was mounted ontop of Shelby and Shelby was flailing her arms...she accidently push up Neff's sports bra for 0.05 seconds while Neff flashed the audience. A lot of guys in the crowd went "oooooh!!" and whistled. Man, that pissed me off. |
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Lil Katai
Pro Fighter
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 426
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:29 am Post subject: |
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"However, I don't relate to Erik, because I do not get turned on by watching two women fight. When I'm watching two women fight, I'm not thinking about smile at all. "
Yup, I feel the same way, but towards the other smile. When I am fighting or dealing with anything that comes to fights, smile is on the other side of the world for me. Fighting is fight and smile is smile. Never shal the two meet.
"During the fight between Judy Neff and Shelby Walker....Neff was mounted ontop of Shelby and Shelby was flailing her arms...she accidently push up Neff's sports bra for 0.05 seconds while Neff flashed the audience. A lot of guys in the crowd went "oooooh!!" and whistled. Man, that pissed me off."
That was Tara LaRose and Shelby. And I don't remember seeing any boobs. I have the DVD.
Tara, "Green jello only! With a midget in a leopard print thong as the ref."
Sweet! I'll have it all set up when you come to Detroit. 
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tofu
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:29 am Post subject: |
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I'm not thinking about smile specifically either when I'm watching it. I don't know how to really explain it. I relate to the sport in a certain way naturally and there is nothing I can do to change this fact. Make of that what you will. You may not feel things the way I do but I don't think it is something where I only relate to women sexually because this was what was taught by society. Most of the things I like are not shared by most of society, so this explanation doesn't cut it for me. I have great respect for these girls. They're living out what they are passionate about and that's awesome. Doesn't sound like the folks you saw looked at it the same way though.
Well, that's about all I have to say. Funny, but I think this post would have gone more or less ignored if Tara had not declared it should be deleted.
Erik |
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Jerzey
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 60
Location: Yakima, Wa
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, it probably would have gone ignored, BUT for the people that do and did read it, I wanted to deter people who might be of the fetish persuasion from thinking that this sort of solicitation is ok, and the norm around here.
Tofu, do you know the difference between what the women fighters depicted on this forum, and the "women fighters" on the fetish sites and forums are? Do you realize how they are different and why? Or do you think the difference is that the chics on this forum are just more clothed when they fight?
KnockOut2, your post was such a breath of fresh air. Not that it matters, but I appreciate very much your stance on women in MMA. It often feels like I'm fighting an uphill battle against, not only the world but, the MMA and BJJ communities for the women to be respected as athletes and competitors, such as the men. I become too wrapped up in it sometimes, and honestly, it aided in my decision to take a year off and go back to school.
Marie (Lil Katai) he was refering to a fight that took place before Revolution, in Hook N Shoot. Judy Neff basically raped Shelby Walker in 40 seconds on the show Hook N Shoot: Kings. I have the tape, I'll bring it with me when I come up there. You'll get a kick out of it. Shelby was basically flailing for her life as Judy mounted her. Shelby reached up during this moment and pulled down Judy's sports bra, then proceded to grab both her braids in an attempt to stop the onslaught.
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Lil Katai
Pro Fighter
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 426
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:43 am Post subject: |
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[quote]Shelby was basically flailing for her life as Judy mounted her.
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Damn, this happens a lot to her don't it?? Yeah, bring the tape, I would love to see it.
I didnt realize, but the Champions Challenge is on a Sunday .. WTF? It's all good. Im working with getting the night before and the night off switched at work. yo gunna stay at my place? I been cleaning it for you lol. You can chill with my sharks  Besides, I know some good spot out here to party. Could be pretty interesting thought having it be a Sunday  |
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Marie Colangelo
"Just cause Im a girl, dont mean I wont whoop your ass like a man" - ME
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Lil Katai
Pro Fighter
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 426
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:46 am Post subject: |
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I don't think I've gotten this quote thing down just yet!
Hey Knockout ...... I need to take you up on the offer with help with my sites if the offer is still there. I keep forgetting to email you. Send me an email at Lilmight1881@aol.com saying "Hey fuck face! You want me help or not!?" and I'll remember to get back with ya!
Im on yahoo "Punk_ass_dep_502" and aim "Lil Katai" if your on there. Easier to talk that way.
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Marie Colangelo
"Just cause Im a girl, dont mean I wont whoop your ass like a man" - ME
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KnockOut2
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| Judy Neff basically raped Shelby Walker in 40 seconds |
haha...
I honestly respect Shelby for getting into the ring...and i'm sure she is a nice person (I really don't know her). However, I think she should not be fighting the top girls in MMA. BUT that is off topic 
Erik...I don't know you so I can't tell what is going on in your head. I have observed a lot of men and I think what I say about society holds true for most of them. Most of the time, people don't even know or understand how their environment conditions their mind to think in certain ways. Most of the time, people don't recognize their influences. There are exceptions...in fact, I'm definitely an exception to that influence. Even so, I still have influences in my life that I am not fully aware of.
The biggest point I would want to make to you is to point out the downside to being into the "fetish fighting" stuff...even if it feels "natural" to you and you still respect the women as fighters. The problem is that, in society, women are objectified. "Fetish fighting" only adds to that problem. Furthermore, fetish fighting mocks the real fighters. That line between fighting and fetish gets skewed. Often, the common person does not know or understand the difference between the two. It's sort of like the line between WWE and UFC, but worse. (Though that's not a great analogy because I understand that WWE actors work really hard for their money. No disrespect to them)
In addition to all of this, I think that fetish fighters (the girls) are adding to the objectification of women. They are providing (essentially) a light form of prostitution. The oldest profession...I know...that is great and all, but it is still an exchange of sexual favors for money. In that arrangement, the women are treated as sexual objects. The same holds true with strip clubs. Sexual objectification.
If you don't understand the problem with objectifying a person...then that is a whole other topic. There are many forms of objectification in life that are not always sexual. Some large corporate companies objectify their employees on a daily basis. Sometimes, men are even objectified sexually...but it is less common. If you watch TV, there are many examples of objectification of women.
I'm not saying that you, personally, objectify women...maybe you treat each and everyone of them as individuals and really appreciate what they are sharing with you on a very deep level....but you are supporting a community that supports the objectification of women.
If you really respect these women as fighters, then you should try to understand how your actions affect them, as fighters.
get me?
P.S. I really appreciate your honesty...Erik. That's really cool. None of this was meant to offend, although the consistant lack of understanding of this topic addmittedly makes me really emotional.
Tara, thanks. Don't encourage me...I could write a book on this topic. Soon, I won't have any friends left |
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KnockOut2
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:13 am Post subject: |
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lil Katai...how in the hell did I just miss you? You posted just 2 minutes ago, but you're not on AIM or YAHOO.   
Ok, I emailed you! |
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Lil Katai
Pro Fighter
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 426
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:38 am Post subject: |
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HAHA
You missed me cause Im not signe don right now. I will sign on in a min but going to put my away message up cause Im going out to a friends out tonight.
With all that talk, maybe you SHOULD writre a book. For real. People need to drill that shit in their heads. Tara loves people like you that think that way. Be careful she don't fall in love with you ....... she might kick your ass. And that might be embarrissing.
I'll be on later tonight. Like 2 or 3 or something.
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Marie Colangelo
"Just cause Im a girl, dont mean I wont whoop your ass like a man" - ME
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